Above all he had that coveted edginess he wore age and occupation inappropriate t shirts and chunky jewelry on the pulpit. Please fill me in Numo. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. How can they do that? Where are all the former higly paid speaking gigs that were constant and kept his calendar full with travel? Some of it probably is. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. well this world is full of executives that get caught in sin and crime and immorality that give wonderful speeches of how sorry they are and then they turn around and get a promotion and never give a single thought to the people they destroyed on their way to the top. Some guys I knew in Tucson called this shining the Stupid Ray on people.. was an attention getter. "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. They worked hard to get where they are and make the assocations that would help them. But they dont work unless everybody actually sticks to them faithfully without exception, Collinssaid. I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. Its much harder to leave that way. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. He needs to clean up the mess that he made. Wouldnt you encourage him to find another vocation? also, In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. Any of all of that may be true. I have read many accounts that his nickname throughout life was el chancho (pig). As Lydia has wisely pointed out, cult survivors are all at different stages in their recovery. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. You would think that over a decade of Manly Man, sexist, dude-bro, preachers that people have had enough, the novelty has worn off, and theyre ready to get real about Church and the faith again? He is a draw. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. The Washington Post published the following headline last Sunday: Controversial preacher Mark Driscoll stripped from megachurch Hillsong conference lineup link. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. The Weapons Of Our Warfare Are Not Carnal?. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Driscoll, IMHO, is completely unsuited for any position of authority. Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. full of manly manness and praise of human strength and wisdom and all the attributes mark has himself. your post is so right LT, the whole post, and it really needs to be said again and again. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. i want to again put a human face on what Mark Driscoll and others in Acts 29 insist on keeping free of anything but CEO Business speak and mistakes that were made. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. The church has spawned countless church plants, charities and conferences. Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. And of course, the author of Acts is writing more of a historical narrative so we dont get a lot of details. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. We have been led by God to support another ministry. Almost all of them pointed to Gods leading. It certainly looked like they had been coached on what to say. He should not be making a buck off Jesus in any way, shape, or form, IMO. . You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. If it is all about numbers and money it would be a wild ride for about five or ten years till it crashes. As a result, the IRS has guidelines on their political activity. his heart is revealed by the countenance of his face. (I guess angles smile a lot) They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: The Lord called to him in a vision, Ananias! "We cannot endorse a candidate and we cannot endorse a party," he said. Or that they were called to be what they are. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, and that other pastor has a history of patterns of behavior and teachings that are destructive it is wise to ask pastor 1 if he has checked him out before he promotes him. @ sam: None of them see anything wrong with this. it is heartbreaking to have to help them get through the transfer of custody until the one can get through a treatment and be able to be around the child again. Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). My great concern is that people leaving megas to find these narrow gate churches are used to high level spiritainment and may not feel able to reduce their standards to go to a small church. What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31866. If so you may be onto something. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. The Rev. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Nancy, i think theres a lot of truth to what you say, and its more than posdible that people he was addressing in his letters knew at least something about that. Ill be honest I dont see Christ in it. it is so sad it breaks my heart. To learn more, visit ja. your comments are great. Same type of focus you describe without the healing stuff. There are some Calvinists who go in the opposite direction and are very humbled by their monergistic view of salvation. Elders thatthat sin are to be rebuke before all, that others also may fear. Like God might show up. "He saw it for what it was. There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! Something has gone seriously wrong in Mega-Land and it aint just thinking about having MD speak at one of their conferences. (WARNING: Includes graphic language), American news sources didn't waste much time alerting their readers of this development. I think it should lie with the one who broke the trust in the first place. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! stephen the shepherd is dying. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? that is not walking in love that is running a business, and i am not a judge. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). Yep. Location. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. Lindell then got personal with me. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. Good point as far as it goes. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. The he takes him back to Antioch where they work together for a year with converted Gentiles. what they are. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Why should we be surprised? i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. . Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. It is often just a wise thing to do if one is familiar with those types. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. Gramp3 and I were recalling today the first time we ever heard Driscolls name brought up in a church. Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. )(mark is apparently not impressed with peter baptizing 3,000 followers in one day cause peter isnt able to be made into a complementarian I guess), interestingly mark points out how stephen handled it but not how mark handled slight persecution which was actually not persecution but truth leveled against him) It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Mind you I find Driscoll a tool in case I havent made that obvious. You dont find out about some of the really bad stuff until you are pretty deep into it. Its kind of like that movie Winters Bone where the communities are closed to a fault. Bummer. Hosting a giant event without distancing or masking is irresponsible and insulting to the people on the front lines of this crisis, most especially the health care workers who are overwhelmed. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. @ Abi Miah: @ Lydia: (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). He was a mass murdering thug. He spends the remainder of the sermon talking about Saul who became Paul and forgiveness. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. @ sam: As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. Connect With Us! pic.twitter.com/FwaVnYEZIi. See here: As you all know, my family and I have been facing difficult trials and persecution. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. I said some decent things, but one can and probably ought to take that with a grain of salt. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. Thank you. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. Not much time has passed since he stepped down. Oops, last comment of mine was supposed to link to this comment. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. James River Church's 2020 Christmas service. You are doing exactly what you accuse the bloggers of. Bob, I loved your comment. Just some thoughts to consider. I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. Nancy Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. I work with the Online Campus and part of that is getting to be involved in anything Online Campus related. I am not the most wonderful guy in the world, i am not a saint, but when i asked Jesus to forgive me and fill me with His Spirit i changed inside. I asked where he got such information. Pastor Lindell invited disgraced misogynistic megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll to speak at James River Assembly while Driscoll was in the midst of a sexual harassment and bullying scandal in his home church. Yes, I have been witnessing first hand over the years of the Calvinism in the AG. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). As the one did previously now the other is going thru the hoops of treatment and being checked on by outside agencies because being around the child is worth it. I have learned much on this blog and often from your comments which are intelligent and insightful. I do hope he finds wholeness. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I find that when the Lord is using my mouth it is never vulgar or rude. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. People think that Christians want filled pews and big churches, most do, i strongly disagree with that. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Plus I put up some Mozart for you guys. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. Open Discussion Page. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. Reveal the conspiracy please. The ones leaving arent stupid. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Adultery, stealing, cheating, being abusive, being a drunkard can also keep you out of heaven.". The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! I think that explains a lot of it. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. Its so weird and twisted, but people eat it up. forgiveness means its paid in full. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. It was titled "A Biblical Look at Human Sexuality." OZARK, Mo. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. You said again twice. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. Are you not voting? In case this was not a rhetorical question, I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. Dont miss the title of Lindells May 16, 2014 blog entry: One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. This is not a measure of faith. But it would be encouraging if they did. I think MD needs a season in the wilderness to really think things out. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. How can a reasonable person look past that? 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. He can be forgiven. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4d131547-f913-5d43-bfc5-5a292f4c27e1.html, What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility Thats certainly how Driscoll has handled things. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. Mark' Driscoll's message has been uploaded on the church website, and we have included it here should you choose to watch it. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. . This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Certainly, Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba at the time of the communist takeover) was a very corrupt man, whose government did terrible things, as with Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, and many others. Anyone who invites Driscoll without knowing his background also displays no judgement. Members are guests? Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. Restaurants and bars / taverns also use atmosphere teams. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. He screamed and swore. Actually are pews still in general use? I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. He faces re-election April 7. I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. The resistance is to Jesus. A friend of the family stated the same. Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Couldn't agree more! Churches are tax-exempt. They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. Sovereign Grace Ministries While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. Dont get Left Behind. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of encouraging and maintaining the procedures necessary to keep people safe and secure, James River Church officials explained. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . "But we can speak and encourage people to vote in terms of the morality of the issue.". actually getting behind the wheel of a car again will probably be the hardest thing he does, if he ever even wants to drive again. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Mot only do I think Driscoll is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think hes opportunistic, and because being a preacher is all he knows.
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